They don't hate us for our freedom

By Libby

It never ceases to astound me how clueless many Americans are about world opinion. When I pitch the importance of good foreign relations, I'm often arrogantly dismissed as if the only thing that matters is what we think. It's a foolish attitude and one that puts us in grave danger. World opinion matters.

Look at a world map. We are a very small country compared to the rest of the globe and thanks to the dunderheaded Bush Doctrine, we are no longer the mighty world power we once were. That's especially true as our economy continues on its slow-mo crash, effectively destroying the monetary advantage that once underwrote our influence.

Via Radley, the point is well illustrated by this poll of Arab nations. They hate us for our policies, not our freedom, whatever that means these days and a majority want us to stop occupying the Arab St everywhere. Looking beyond the graphics at the post to the (pdf) link, in terms of Iraq, only 6% believe the surge worked. 61% believe a US withdrawal would allow Iraqis to reconcile their differences with only 15% believing it would increase the civil violence and most of them do not view Iran as a threat, even if it ever manages to acquire nuclear weapons.

Furthermore, threatening the annihilation of Iran may play well with the cowering masses in America but it's like lighting a match in a closed room full of gasoline fumes in the rest of the world. I didn't get around to blogging this earlier but I was horrified when Hillary made that remark a couple of days ago and now the LAT collects the international reaction, including this from the Saudi-based daily Arab News.

"This is the foreign politics of the madhouse. It demonstrates the same doltish ignorance that has distinguished Bush’s foreign relations. It offers only violence where there should be negotiations and war where there could be peace. At a stroke, Clinton demonstrated to everyone in this region that if she were the next occupant of the White House, Iraq-like death and destruction would be the order of the day."

I can't say I disagree with that. There may well be compelling reasons to support Hillary but when she makes the same kind of incendiary comments that we hear constantly from the warmongers that got us into this mess, her diplomatic skills are certainly not one of them. Frankly, I don't see how her supporters can, in good conscience, excuse or ignore that kind of rhetoric .

Comments

[Lesser Ajax]

I thought this was an interesting discussion of that survey and how it's evidence that the Bush administration has no freakin' clue:

http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1095

[Libby]

Thanks Ajax. It was an interesting survey to be sure.

[Dan]

Hi Libby. I believe the right wing and the Clintons have concluded that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." A few years ago who would have thought such an alliance was possible? It seems more and more that Hillary has gone all in - she's gambling all her influence on getting the nomination. If she doesn't, she'll have exhausted all reserves of good will and intimidation and she'll have no future of consequence in the party. This is all just an observation from a distance, but if she's about to officially lose she better get a promise of a Supreme Court nomination.

[carol]

"When I pitch the importance of good foreign relations, I'm often arrogantly dismissed as if the only thing that matters is what we think."

That's the most right on assessment of the frustration any of us who pay attention to more than fox news and cnn feel I've ever seen. Our "superpower" status is not a guarantee, and in fact, may have dwindled away over the past 8 years.

"Frankly, I don't see how her supporters can, in good conscience, excuse or ignore that kind of rhetoric"

It's maddening isn't it? Nice to know I'm not all alone!

[Libby]

Dan, I just had a conversation about that very thing on a listserv I'm on. It's hard not to draw that conclusion from the circumstantial evidence but I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. However, the remark on Iran was just as reckless as anything I've ever heard out of this administration. I'm very concerned that Bush and Cheney will pull a fast one on their way out the door, even though it would be insane. It's not like that has ever stopped them. It's a fake narrative and one I want all Dems to be pushing back against, not helping to build.

Carol, it's just astounding how limited so many are in their worldview. I think it's because they've never traveled out of the country. As far the Hillary supporters tunnel vision. I just don't understand it. Hillary is undeniably been unfairly targeted many times, but she has also done some fairly egregious stuff and if she wasn't running for president or if a Republican had said or done some of those things, I think everyone would have been all over it. It's the "my candidate can do no wrong" mindset that discomfits me.

Obama supporters also fall prey to that though, just not to the same extent that I have seen. It's like most of Leftopia has gone mad and forgotten that these two are professional politicians. It's not like it's worth fighting over with such vehemence.

[Mike]

Saying that "They hate us for our freedom" and "They hate us for our policies" are both gross oversimplfications of why many countries view the US in the way that they do.

It's okay to beat-up on ourselves about why other folks do not like us. It may help us to become better world citizens. It's also okay to say that we are the subjects of gross misundertanding and a lack of willingness on the part of other nations to take the time to see what we stand for or try to understand us in anyway.(Granted Bush has fuled the world's hatred of us. All I can say to that is that I can't wait until inauguration day).

What I think is clear is that there is an element of hatered that has nothing to do with this nation's, or any other nation's, policies. It is a hatered borne out of a group's philosophy of hatred. Individuals that form a brutal and cold regime that believes that it is omnipotent and has the right to impose its view of religion on the rest of the world's populations by any means at its disposal. Those who do not wish to be assimilated into the subservience of its religious philoshpy must die.

That kind of hatred can not be reasoned with by even the most benevolent and alturistic of societies becasue if those societies deviate from the philsophy, their populations too must die. (That's pretty sick don't you think?)

So, I think that it is not an oversimplification to say that there is a large population of indivudals across this globe acting in concert of whom it may safely be said: They hate us all becasue we exist.

Mike

[Libby]

Mike you clearly didn't look at the link. The question was specifically whether they hated us for ourselves or because we're occupying their countries. You can't get much clearer than that.

Of course there's a certain element in any society that just hates for the sake of hating but based on your premise, then would you extrapolate that every white person hates Americans because some neo-Nazi groups do stuff like blow up buildings in Oklahoma? Every single white person in the South hates all blacks because the KKK lynched some of them?

If you travel internationally to any extent you find that most people are the same. Yeah, they look different, eat different foods, worship different Gods but they're mostly regular folks not unlike you and me. Just living their lives and trying to get by.